Comparison of non-Uber Walls

[Zephyr]

Well, let's take an arbitrary number here. A flamethrower is dealing 100 damage on a neutral hit. If a 4x resistant Pokemon takes the hit, it's still taking 25 (75 less) damage. If a 4x weak Pokemon gets hit, it's taking 400 damage (300 more). Quite simply put, those numbers prove that defensively speaking, there's not much of an advantage to be had. That being said, that tends to be how games develop over time. Magic The Gathering moves more and more towards aggro and away from control / combo decks. Pokemon moves more towards offense, and away from themes and defense.

Defense means you're thinking about YOU and you're thinking about YOUR OPPONENT. Two tactics at once. Combo in Magic, or Theme in Pokemon? You spend time working on your own thing, THEN stopping your opponent. Again, two tactics at once. Aggro? You worry about stomping your opponent. You don't worry about what you have until you've lost.

Eventually, aggro's one track mind is figured out. It's obvious what someone's going to do, and someone finds a loophole. That method overcomes aggro, and control becomes viable again. So, our job as defense players, is to find aggro's gap. Generally, it means that they miss out on an important aspect of gameplay. In most cases, it comes down to using priority, to ignore the fact that they outpace you, since they're so frail. Defensively bulky Priority sweepers? I think there's something to be said for that. Conkeldurr does it. Scizor does it. Empoleon, to some extent, also does it. In the long run, you're stuck combining aggro with Defense. So you're stuck thinking "What's my goal, how do I get there, and how do I stop my opponent from stopping me?"

So a defensive team uses defensive moves. (SR and status ailments, namely Toxic, T-Wave and Will-O-Wisp). Cripples the opponents attackers. Sets up with a bulky dude. Priority sweeps for the win. That's about the ONLY choice defense CURRENTLY has. From where I'm sitting. The metagame has probably evolved by now, but by stepping back and playing Magic instead, I can kinda put things in new terms now and see things clearly. Hm... maybe I can take my Pokemon knowledge and apply it to MTG. Thanks, Titan!

For a lot of stuff. For the calcs, and for always theory-partying with me. I totally just overlooked about half of your post. I mean, I read it, but there's not much to say on it yet. You seem to know a lot about Weather, so maybe there's a way to combine ideas. GRACEFULLY COMBINE! Yeah... I just finished Gurren Lagann. Yelling shit seems awesome, and combining moreso. =P Remind me if I forgot to comment on any of that that you think should have gotten more appreciation / appraisal.

[ProjectTitan313]

2 pages, lol yeah baby
I love these poke convos we have. Been MONTHS since the last one :3

And yeah, good point on Priority, I absolutely love Conkeldurr. Scizor is beast, and SD+LO Aqua Jet Gatr=GG in the rain. 'Gatr even OHKO's Ferro with Superpower (or Low Kick if switches in). And man... as soon as something or your Life Orb pushes you into Torrent range, that's basically a 2.5x boosted Priority move off of 700+ Atk. And people say mah 'Gatr's outclassed.

Weather's big to me. I run a Sun team (Ninetales, Volcarona, Lilligant, Starmie, Landorus, Latios) so kicking the shit out of Rain/Sand is important. Landorus has fun with Sand, Latios just slaughters everything in the rain, while Volcarona and Lilligant are Gods in the Sun. Hail obviously isn't much issue
And by "Gods" I mean "Lilligant OHKO's anything weak to Grass and outspeeds +1 Timid Starmie, while Sleep Powder rapes whatever she doesn't murder" and "Volcarona=checkmate". So oddly enough, I currently run an offensive team based around a semi bulky Volcarona. Tried bulkier stuff like Cobalion (you can guess why that didn't work) and Tentacruel, but they ended up being speedbumps...
My Buzzard shall have her own team one day, and it shall be tough as nails. Mostly, I miss Stall. Its so... heartless, yet fun :3
I just can't decide on Hail or Sand for stalling. Hail's obviously better, but Hippowdon is actually useful to a stall team. Overcoat ftw.
And with Sand I can abuse Rock types. For all that's worth xD

Big problem being Magic Guard. Luckily, Alakazam's about as hard to KO as Jynx, and Mandibuzz trolls Reuniclus sooo hard. And Sigilyph is a myth.
Poison Heal Gliscor is also everywhere, and just outheals Stealth Rock and is effectively immune to status/Sandstorm/Hail. It also has a faster Taunt than Mandibuzz, meaning I really can't troll it. Which is sad

A few issues these days is most people abuse Weather for the power boosts, or spam VoltTurn till you die, so they always have something in that has the advantage. Which means your fucked without surprise sets (Mixed Landorus for example) or you have to U-Turn/Volt Switch them as they VOltSwitch. And Landorus/Gliscor are the only thing that walls it. Which is pretty much why I run Landorus. Who abuses U-Turn :/

Luckily, hazards wreck VoltTurn though. Maybe a shuffler could really work these days, a lot of stuff is sort of a set up and go type style and hazards are deadlier than ever. And that is something Mandibuzz could really do; U-Turn+Whirlwind=troll. Tons of stuff vulnerable to Spikes and SR. Conkeldurr, Volcarona, Politoed, etc. May try some of that, as much as I love my sun team I feel the need for something... bulkier

[chaoticjoy1]

You guys are insane! Such in-depth discussion over this. :O

[Zephyr]

Yeah, I was thinking the shuffle method, along with the obvious hazards and a few Priority sweepers to clean up the match. It's far more effective than trying to overpower your opponent from a defensive standpoint. ...Now I want to make a team again. I'll make a thread tomorrow towards that effect. I'll try to build a quick team and have fun with it. I mean, I know I'll use at least one Ghost type, and they're super cool.

Pokemon is one of my homes. =P

[ProjectTitan313]

You guys are insane! Such in-depth discussion over this. :O

lol. Yeah, pokemon is sort of my hobby. I've been doing huge analysis articles and such for years :3
Amazing how complex a "childrens" game is, eh?

Shuffling as a core strategy could be interesting Zeph. I can't say I've ever seen a team built around consistently forcing the foe out. Forretress has Volt Switch after it sets hazards, Mandibuzz and Articuno can U-Turn+Whirlwind, a Conkeldurr sweep to pick up the mess, maybe something cool like bulky Arcanine (Intimidate+Will-o-Wisp ftw), or TR Sweeper Reuniclus as it trolls the shit out of weather teams that lack Taunt or Escavalier.

[Zephyr]

Oh FUCK. I did the same thing once again. I thought I'd build a Pokemon team, or make an MTG deck, or start up an art project finally... but NO. I sat around all day. Not that I don't feel well rested, I just didn't do what I hoped to do.

[ProjectTitan313]

I do that a lot. Hence why my RNG guide currently doesn't have a Wondercard section. I could throw it up in an hour, pics and all, but keeps slipping my mind

Granted, team building is more complicated/thought involving